So someone else made most of the zombies? Meat ghosts. Were they like people or like monsters?
This is like talking about chimeras all over again... So you can have a hungry meat ghost and a hungry ghost ghost? And they are heavy with...what? Emotion? I do not understand feeding a ghost "greed". What does that even mean?
This is so many questions! But this time not like ☁️🏫 at all.
I didn't make all of them, but I did make plenty. And they were mostly like monsters, because I didn't put the consciousness back in, because that's quite a lot of work and I was usually in a hurry.
There's just hungry ghosts! There's kinds, but it's not...meat dependent. I don't know why meat or no meat is such a big part of this classification scheme. This has gotten so out of hand! They're heavy, spiritually, which makes them heavy physically. And you don't have to feed them anything, they're already like that. You can feed them normal ghost things, if you're trying to help, but it won't make a good weight then.
If you don't want me to ask questions, then you should stop telling me interesting things. You only have yourself to blame. 👻🏫
Meat-or-not-meat only started because you asked how much meat was on the ghosts. And ghosts do not usually have meat! For me! Undead are classified by the thing you make the undead out of--or by its behavior. And it matters very much, if you happen to be fighting it because they all require different means, from what I can tell.
What makes something spiritually heavy? Greed, I guess? Is greed a heavy thing? Is it just bad emotions, or is greed specific? If a greedy person dies, does it make a greedy ghost?
Well it's not my fault you're used to bland ghosts. I mean, no-meat ghosts are 🆗, but a variety is better. The differences (and the meat) matter for some kinds of fighting, but not as much as you'd think. A good spiritual weapon or tool will negate the meat question.
Not just greed exactly? I shouldn't have gotten into heaviness, that's really just for using ghosts as glorified paperweights. Resentment is the more general purpose currency.
Just curious. I know some bone ghosts, that's all.
Also, there is a lot of variety, thank you very much. There is ghosts and ghouls and ghasts and skeletons and zombies and revenants and... probably a lot more, but I am not actually well versed in undead! You would have to ask a cleric or a priest or something; I've just read a lot of stories.
What does resentment do for a ghost? Isn't that just a ghostly state of being?
You do not have to fight me, I can just listen in while you ask them. If we find one. There do not seem to be a lot of people from my world here. Only one that I know of, and they are less talkative than I am.
That makes sense--sort of how ghosts work for us, too. Ghosts-ghosts, not other kinds of ghosts. Other sorts of ghosts can just be made whenever, no emotional requirements needed.
I don't know! We just met them. They were on an island, and they wanted off of it, so we took them with us. Most of them. I think we left...two or three on the island? I can't remember, it's been a few months since then.
Please note that I am choosing to ignore your rude insinuation. 👿
There are resentful meat-ghosts! Revenants are very resentful, I think. When they're created, they really only want to kill one person, but they want it *really* badly. If you have a revenant after you, you are pretty much dead already. It's very spooky. They make for good stories. But those don't happen on their own, I think. You have to use magic to make them.
Well it's very polite of your various meat ghosts to wait around for someone to make them. Really sounds like a more orderly way to go about it. Though I guess then a lot of cultivators would be out of a job.
Do yours make themselves??? That sounds horrible. There's supposed to be some sort of reason for undead to exist, I think... They're not supposed to just happen of their own accord.
Like 🦴👻🏝️! The whole island had a lot of necromantic energy on it--probably something to do with having a temple to some death god there. So when these people died on the island, they all became 🦴👻 automatically. It was very spooky. They were also pretty unhappy about having other people on the island, so they attacked us a lot. It took them two whole days to calm down.
The temple was very cool, though. It was shaped like a skull on the outside, and full of traps on the inside. There was a fountain that had magic water in it, and a study with a illusory wall and bear-skin rugs that came to life as real bears. And a shadow of a skull on the floor! I stuck my hand into it, and it made me feel really awful for a few seconds. Aside from those few seconds, that was cool.
They make themselves...sometimes. But an island full of resentful energy sounds like exactly the kind of thing to make that happen. Obviously not ideal but it sounds like it DOES happen and you are just biased about undead needing a reason to exist. It also sounds like a very interesting thing to explore, and I'm curious to know how you calmed down the 🦴👻s. Lan Zhan or I would use music normally, but focusing on calming them down at all is not the commonest approach.
Mostly we just fought them until they stopped fighting because we were better than them. We did warn them that we didn't want to fight! But they still attacked us, so it couldn't be helped that a few of them didn't make it.
We rescued most of them, though. That's what counts.
And I am not biased against undead reasons! The spooky island *is* the reason. Those don't just happen on their own. The death god did that.
This still seems like a semantic argument, however. If just the proximity of a death god's shrine counts as a reason, then surely a bad death also counts, and they're not just making themselves either. But if we're arguing that there needs to be a conscious decision to make a 👻...
Of course we took them! We weren't going to leave them there. No one deserves to be stuck on an island for decades.
Under normal circumstances and normal energy levels of non-magical locations, most undead do not generate of their own accord, and that is not an unusual or biased thing to think! It is just facts. A death god's shrine permeates negative energies into the surrounding area, thus corrupting it in a way that produces 👻 where it would otherwise not! There does not need to be a conscious decision, so I do not need to argue whether the death god specifically and consciously created the 🦴👻 (though I am sure that they would have opted to do so consciously, since they opted to manipulate events in a way that got those people killed in the first place). What matters is that there is a reason, but not necessarily a conscious one!
I mean, you make it sound very reasonable, but I think you deserve some points for not just re-killing them and being done with it, regardless of how much personality they have. Which I'm assuming they had some? More than most 🦴👻? Maybe it builds up over time.
Well that's what I'm saying, I think. There's always a reason, just not necessarily a conscious one. So really we're on the same 👻📜
I think it matters if a soul is present? Some of them have a lot of personality. These ones definitely did.
...Some of them could stand to have less personality. As in, they can put that personality back and get a new one.
But anyway... Do you give people points for not re-killing 🦴👻? I guess re-killing is the normal response; but the normal response is awful. Some of the 🦴👻 are nice, and they didn't ask to be like that.
Like Kieran. He was eighteen when he died on that island. That's only a little younger than me. He's spent more time as a 🦴👻 than a human, but he's not scary. He just wants to learn how to make stuff. That doesn't sound fair.
Yeah. He's going to. I'm going to show him how to make a bunch of things. He's going to have so much to do, he's going to wish he was bored again. 🛠️⚙️🧵👚
[If this is a set-up with any kind of 'is typing' mechanic, Klaudia is getting hit with intermittent '...'s for an unusually long time. Particularly considering the response doesn't really seem like it could have needed that much editing.]
He was one of the nicest. But if death were fair, then I'd understand what people had against my cultivation methods.
[What a coincidence that Wei Wuxian might get a similar experience from his end, or at the very least a very long wait for a message to come back.]
I'm sorry.
[She is not at all equipped to know what to say to this. But the shift to past tense has given her enough of a hint, and it feels like she should say something else. Something that is perhaps not a question, for once.]
Most people are very bad at knowing what fair is, I think, because they don't know what it's like to have unfairness pointed at them. But the ones who do know are very important. They make warm places that are worth being in, no matter how much time you end up having.
And you seem like a warm place. So if he thought so too, then I'm sure he knew how much that was worth.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2021-05-23 11:59 pm (UTC)From:This is like talking about chimeras all over again... So you can have a hungry meat ghost and a hungry ghost ghost? And they are heavy with...what? Emotion? I do not understand feeding a ghost "greed". What does that even mean?
no subject
Date: 2021-05-24 12:23 am (UTC)From:I didn't make all of them, but I did make plenty. And they were mostly like monsters, because I didn't put the consciousness back in, because that's quite a lot of work and I was usually in a hurry.
There's just hungry ghosts! There's kinds, but it's not...meat dependent. I don't know why meat or no meat is such a big part of this classification scheme. This has gotten so out of hand! They're heavy, spiritually, which makes them heavy physically. And you don't have to feed them anything, they're already like that. You can feed them normal ghost things, if you're trying to help, but it won't make a good weight then.
no subject
Date: 2021-05-24 01:14 am (UTC)From:Meat-or-not-meat only started because you asked how much meat was on the ghosts. And ghosts do not usually have meat! For me! Undead are classified by the thing you make the undead out of--or by its behavior. And it matters very much, if you happen to be fighting it because they all require different means, from what I can tell.
What makes something spiritually heavy? Greed, I guess? Is greed a heavy thing? Is it just bad emotions, or is greed specific? If a greedy person dies, does it make a greedy ghost?
Also. Did you ever make bone ghosts?
no subject
Date: 2021-05-24 08:27 pm (UTC)From:Not just greed exactly? I shouldn't have gotten into heaviness, that's really just for using ghosts as glorified paperweights. Resentment is the more general purpose currency.
I didn't favor bone ghosts. Why?
no subject
Date: 2021-05-24 08:42 pm (UTC)From:Also, there is a lot of variety, thank you very much. There is ghosts and ghouls and ghasts and skeletons and zombies and revenants and... probably a lot more, but I am not actually well versed in undead! You would have to ask a cleric or a priest or something; I've just read a lot of stories.
What does resentment do for a ghost? Isn't that just a ghostly state of being?
no subject
Date: 2021-05-24 09:27 pm (UTC)From:I would love to ask them, though it feels like I'd probably have to fight you for the chance.
Well it's not ideal for the ghost. But generally a ghost has some kind of reason for cluttering up the place instead of moving along.
no subject
Date: 2021-05-24 09:38 pm (UTC)From:You do not have to fight me, I can just listen in while you ask them. If we find one. There do not seem to be a lot of people from my world here. Only one that I know of, and they are less talkative than I am.
That makes sense--sort of how ghosts work for us, too. Ghosts-ghosts, not other kinds of ghosts. Other sorts of ghosts can just be made whenever, no emotional requirements needed.
no subject
Date: 2021-05-24 10:21 pm (UTC)From:I don't know if that tells me as much about them and how much they talk as you think.
No resentful meat ghosts?
no subject
Date: 2021-05-24 11:10 pm (UTC)From:Please note that I am choosing to ignore your rude insinuation. 👿
There are resentful meat-ghosts! Revenants are very resentful, I think. When they're created, they really only want to kill one person, but they want it *really* badly. If you have a revenant after you, you are pretty much dead already. It's very spooky. They make for good stories. But those don't happen on their own, I think. You have to use magic to make them.
no subject
Date: 2021-05-26 09:59 pm (UTC)From:Well it's very polite of your various meat ghosts to wait around for someone to make them. Really sounds like a more orderly way to go about it. Though I guess then a lot of cultivators would be out of a job.
no subject
Date: 2021-05-26 11:52 pm (UTC)From:Like 🦴👻🏝️! The whole island had a lot of necromantic energy on it--probably something to do with having a temple to some death god there. So when these people died on the island, they all became 🦴👻 automatically. It was very spooky. They were also pretty unhappy about having other people on the island, so they attacked us a lot. It took them two whole days to calm down.
The temple was very cool, though. It was shaped like a skull on the outside, and full of traps on the inside. There was a fountain that had magic water in it, and a study with a illusory wall and bear-skin rugs that came to life as real bears. And a shadow of a skull on the floor! I stuck my hand into it, and it made me feel really awful for a few seconds. Aside from those few seconds, that was cool.
no subject
Date: 2021-05-29 06:10 pm (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2021-05-29 06:16 pm (UTC)From:We rescued most of them, though. That's what counts.
And I am not biased against undead reasons! The spooky island *is* the reason. Those don't just happen on their own. The death god did that.
no subject
Date: 2021-05-29 06:27 pm (UTC)From:This still seems like a semantic argument, however. If just the proximity of a death god's shrine counts as a reason, then surely a bad death also counts, and they're not just making themselves either. But if we're arguing that there needs to be a conscious decision to make a 👻...
no subject
Date: 2021-05-29 08:04 pm (UTC)From:Under normal circumstances and normal energy levels of non-magical locations, most undead do not generate of their own accord, and that is not an unusual or biased thing to think! It is just facts. A death god's shrine permeates negative energies into the surrounding area, thus corrupting it in a way that produces 👻 where it would otherwise not! There does not need to be a conscious decision, so I do not need to argue whether the death god specifically and consciously created the 🦴👻 (though I am sure that they would have opted to do so consciously, since they opted to manipulate events in a way that got those people killed in the first place). What matters is that there is a reason, but not necessarily a conscious one!
no subject
Date: 2021-05-31 09:01 pm (UTC)From:Well that's what I'm saying, I think. There's always a reason, just not necessarily a conscious one. So really we're on the same 👻📜
no subject
Date: 2021-06-01 01:32 am (UTC)From:...Some of them could stand to have less personality. As in, they can put that personality back and get a new one.
But anyway... Do you give people points for not re-killing 🦴👻? I guess re-killing is the normal response; but the normal response is awful. Some of the 🦴👻 are nice, and they didn't ask to be like that.
Like Kieran. He was eighteen when he died on that island. That's only a little younger than me. He's spent more time as a 🦴👻 than a human, but he's not scary. He just wants to learn how to make stuff. That doesn't sound fair.
1/2
Date: 2021-06-01 01:47 am (UTC)From:2/2
Date: 2021-06-01 02:00 am (UTC)From:I guess the whole death god part probably factors in with the souls. I only got that part down properly once.
no subject
Date: 2021-06-01 03:04 am (UTC)From:What's yours like? Are they nice?
no subject
Date: 2021-06-01 05:14 am (UTC)From:He was one of the nicest. But if death were fair, then I'd understand what people had against my cultivation methods.
no subject
Date: 2021-06-01 06:31 am (UTC)From:I'm sorry.
[She is not at all equipped to know what to say to this. But the shift to past tense has given her enough of a hint, and it feels like she should say something else. Something that is perhaps not a question, for once.]
Most people are very bad at knowing what fair is, I think, because they don't know what it's like to have unfairness pointed at them. But the ones who do know are very important. They make warm places that are worth being in, no matter how much time you end up having.
And you seem like a warm place. So if he thought so too, then I'm sure he knew how much that was worth.